When country clubs have to do big capital projects like a new clubhouse or major course remodels, theyll often assess the members a significant amount. Country Club Costs. In an exhibition match Ohara and his brother took on the six time British Open Champion Harry Vardon and Ted Ray the reigning 1920 U.S. Open Champion. This membership is open to individuals under the age of 40. Upload or insert images from URL. Find company research, competitor information, contact details & financial data for Shackamaxon Golf & Country Club, Inc. of Scotch Plains, NJ. Shack's famous 18th Hole was voted one of the most intimidating par-4's in the Metropolitan area by Met Golfer Magazine. Mr. Nelson, president of the American Type Founders Company, was looking to move his family from Great Kills Staten Island New York to somewhere in the Westfield area. Master Plan $160. 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, 2023 Farmers Insurance Open - Discussion and Links to all photos, What do the hands do during the impact and follow through? It's got to be at least half a mile from the first hole to the second. Conditions depend on Mother Nature. History A. W. Tillinghast design. I heard from somewhere that 85-90% of their members live in Chatham. ECCC is known to be a fairly affordable club for the quality, so you're statement is probably right - I bet a ton of people who moved out of the NYC area during Covid and moved to CNJ looked at ECCC as a really great option and joined. If you are a fully active member, you want to know that your opinion is being listened to and responded to. 1220. Here are 31 questions to ask before joining a club, to make sure youre making the right move for yourself and your family. Or a ladies 9 hole on Tuesday mornings. . Shackamaxon Country Club | 243 followers on LinkedIn. Thanks for the feedback, Ive played Stanton Ridge, its a great course. So its important to ask questions about how it works going into your prospective membership. Instead of designing straightaway . UMCC is 3 solid 9's and a really good group of guys. Your link has been automatically embedded. Check out Metuchen Golf & Country Club. The property includes a resort-style pool complex with a 25-meter main pool, an adult pool with in-water lounge and waterfall, swim-up bar with pod seating, a childrens pool with water features, a snack bar and locker rooms. . All Rights Reserved. For instance, the average club in the NYC area will likely cost you at least $50,000. Also worth asking whattimereservations open up. Service charges? Shackamaxon Country Club's 18-Hole Championship Course was designed in 1916 by Albert W. Tillinghast, named one of the great golf course architects by Golf Magazine. Here are a few pros: That said, there are some negatives as well: Neither equity or non-equity is necessarily better than the other but theyre operated very differently, and there can be different expenses associated with each. 4. The clubhouse is very old. View job. He an inductee into the New Jersey PGA Hall of Fame. Rankings. Complete the form and a member of our staff will reach out as soon as possible. For information on membership, please visit the club's website www.shackamaxoncc.com or contact Director of Membership . I've reached out to most of the private clubs in the area, and have landed on a preliminary ranking, outlined below. Very nice course and reasonable dues. All Rights Reserved. Cleveland Launcher UHX Utility 20* 4 iron - UST Recoil 95 Stiff Price:$500 (membership fee), $1,000 (ceremony fee), $175-$300/person (food and alcohol). This isnt necessarily a huge deal, but your clubs reputation can have an impact on the rest of your golf life. Most of games top players came to Shackamaxon in 1955 for the first Cavalcade of Golf, a brand new PGA tour event. Shackamaxon Country Club is a private, 18-hole in Scotch Plains, NJ (par: 72; yards: 6,737). All Rights Reserved. Im interested in hearing club suggestions as well as some feedback on Glenwood. Family Full Privilege Membership provides full access to all of the Club's facilities and amenities, including the championship 18-hole golf course, putting and chipping practice greens, the driving range, pro shop, all dining outlets, Totem Fitness Center, and all social related events and activities. Many clubs will offer a no-interest payment plan to allow you to pay your initiation over a number of years. Now fast forward to the actual . Our challenging, Albert W. Tillinghast-designed course and friendly staff ensures our members will enjoy bringing guests out for a drink, as well as perfecting their game. I havent looked into the numbers yet because I know even a good deal will be out of my price range at this point, but can anyone shed some light on the bond, dues, initiation fee, etc for Montclair GC, Essex Fells CC, Upper Montclair GC, Essex County CC, Mountain Ridge, or Greenbrook? Our mission is to evolve the country club experience to the highest levelon the cutting edge of tradition by honoring the current traditions while enhancing and elevating the member and guest experience at each of our premier private, resort and daily fee golf facilities. They raised their guest fees by 50% not long after I joined, so my friends who werent members rarely wanted to join me, because it was a premium price, for a so-so course. Tillinghast golf course. Membership Categories Full Family Golf Membership. Michael Burke, Director of Golf, 609-236-4400 or email him at membership@ottingergolf.com. Heritage Golf Group manages this facility, with Dennis Wuyscik, PGA . . Finally, the most important question to ask yourself is: will I actually use this? My understanding up on the Sussex/80 into PA corridor, there aren't many private courses left up there if at all. The average price, however, will normally be in the $500 to $20,000 range to just join. Baltusrol maintains a corps of caddies who know the courses well. A key matter for membership of a golf club should be how do you express your views/opinions to key individuals at the Club. Can't speak to family friendliness, but men's grill vibe is a-ok. TM M1 9.5* Kuro Kage XT70 X Putnam County GC. There you go, 31 questions you should ask yourself and/or the club before joining a country club. This isjust far enoughthat I rarely go out to hit balls on my lunch break. Some clubs are happy to let anyone in that wants to join. Shackamaxon Country Club Membership Fees, At 6'1" and 230 pounds, Robert, 14, has been arrested four times for battery but meets his match in an officer twice his size. Over six hundred local residence visited the club that weekend. I love Neshanic, its an amazing golf course, the problem is its a solid hour drive and coming home on the weekends in the summer its longer than that. Build a new clubhouse? Likely not going to get initiation back if you resign, Free or decreased dues for a number of months. The Jr. membership initiation is much higher than others, but you get 36 holes and seems to be a really close nit club. Full-time. I'll definitely check out that club in Mendham! But non-junior dues and fees at either will be well in excess of the $5k that OP is looking for. Majority of your pay is service charge. Do the members have to vote on it? Maybe its a mens league on Thursday afternoons. Your looking for $20k of value at a fraction of the price. Are they going to tear up the course for a redesign right after you join? Cleveland RTX-3 54* Again, if you plan to enjoy the club with family members, understand exactly what this looks like. So this could be a very nice perk if youre someone who travels around your region often. Heritage Golf Group works closely with only the finest companies in golf. Relax. Name Shackamaxon Country Club Address 1607 Shackamaxon Drive Scotch Plains, New Jersey, 07076 Phone 908-233-1300 Fax 908-233-2108 Hours Open Daily 9:00 AM-9:00 PM 70+ year old retirees? So if there are assessments and they say something like that, get it in writing. If theres a good range by you, maybe you can find a club which has little or no range but get some of the other things your looking for. Baltusrol is primarily a walking course and we urge the use of caddies. If there are major repairs or updates it can be on the membership to pay for them in the way of increased dues or assessments. The courses themselves are great, but that is topped by the atmosphere which is incredible. Sorry. Tillinghast used the natural lay of the land to create each hole to be in harmony with its surroundings. You may not care at all, but if you do, Ive found this to have more of an impact than I expected. Every great country club needs a great professional golfer to head its staff and Shackamaxon has had more that its fair share. From grand to intimate, from indoor elegance to outdoor beauty, from personal milestones to corporate events, we invite you to celebrate at Shackamaxon. These are dues only, not including initiation or monthly and yearly dues.Also they have a pretty elaborate interview process outlined in this package. Youll find lots of different types of people at a country club, but ultimately one of the best reasons to join is to be around like-minded people. MCCC's dues are higher than Canoe Brook, and I don't like it nearly as much. Good afternoon everyone. Your previous content has been restored. Brooklake: I love this course - I just think it's beautiful with all of the water. Address 169 Bartley Rd, Long Valley, NJ 07853, USA. He is an inductee into the New Jersey PGA Hall of fame. No matter how good of a deal a club is, if you dont like the golf course? They seem to have a mix of different ages as well. I have the UMCC membership information in my hands given to me 3 weeks ago by the membership directormaybe they have been update since then.. the numbers are correct. Definitely interested in Essex County - would love to get your thoughts on what you thought from your tour about the club and its membership base. All Rights Reserved. The waiting list used to be about a year. Courses. Also Im looking for more of a private club feel. Sometimes these terms are used interchangeably, but generally speaking a country club has more amenities and a greater social scene beyond golf. The average individual club membership is $520 per month, according to a survey by Golf Digest. From some other posts on here it looks like Glenwood Country Club is an option, but I know nothing about the club or layout. What you describe abotbthe afternoon is exactly right. 5. If its a non-equity club, is there a schedule for raising dues each year? In order to be entitled to a stake in the club's assets and property, the member must receive a membership certificate. Shack hosted the event for the next 12 years. GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 23, Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here, Please put any questions or Comments here. Scheduling a t-time is a huge downside for me, though. Initiation fees vary wildly by club and location. But I still get tremendous enjoyment out of my club membership, the people at the club, and the escape from day-to-day life. We look forward to hearing from you! Some clubs arent very busy and you can almost always find a time that works to play. Here at Stanton Ridge Golf and Country Club membership does have its privileges. Some only let you bring so many guests each month. For me, the junior pricing at MGC is significantly less and almost a no brainer. Also locker fee, $1000 food minimum per year, and about $275 in miscellaneous service fees Gotcha. Black Oak in Morris County is supposed to be great. Agreed its not a very walkable course. Funny you mention that about Fairmount. The PGA reported that 80 per cent of the top money winners on tour would be playing. Members must accompany all . Mizuno MP64 4-PW C-Taper S Optional Add-Ons include: Pool access, and reciprocal access to select Heritage Golf Group Clubs. He was head pro at Shackamaxon for four years. Maybe the best group of par 3's in the state. I am excited to join the Heritage Golf Group team and work with the Shackamaxon members and community to provide an excellent private club experience for all.. The Jr. membership initiation is much higher than others, but you get 36 holes and seems to be a really close nit club. > Golf bags should be of the kick-stand variety and weigh under 25 lbs. Have you enjoyed your experience thus far? All Rights Reserved. 2. OP, I haven't played all of these but here are a couple of thoughts: Canoe Brook- great club, and extremely family friendly. How to Plan a Golf Trip: 31 Questions to Ask Before You Leave. {TOKEN:EVENT_ITEM:ITEM_DESC}. Tillinghast golf course, a resort-style pool complex with a 25-meter main pool, an adult pool with in-water lounge and waterfall, swim-up bar with pod seating, a children's pool with water features, a snack bar and locker rooms. Heritage Golf Groups prestigious golf properties have won numerous awards and continue to garner praise and rave reviews within our portfolio of well-known and acclaimed golf properties spanning South Carolina, Florida, Virginia, Wisconsin, New York, New Jersey, and Illinois. With golf experiencing a bit of a resurgence, theres a chance that perhaps youre thinking of joining one yourself. Was going through the same list myself. The first head pro was Cyril Walker, a well established tournament player. Range included. . Usually, you wont find all of those extra amenities, and the social activities are more focused on the golf course than anything else. The point being, make sure you understand how much youre actuallypaying each month. 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, 2023 Farmers Insurance Open - Discussion and Links to all photos, What do the hands do during the impact and follow through? Forsgate is close an hour drive as well, but if the cost was right Id consider it. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Ive learned alotover the last decade of club membership about what to look for in a new golf club, things to consider that you may not have thought about, and what questions to ask before you join a country club. Good luck making much progress here. Essex County Country Club was inaugurated way back in 1887 but it took almost thirty years before A.W. Since 1900, the NJSGA has dedicated itself to serving golf and golfers in the State of New Jersey. Membership Year runs March 1 thru February 28. 16,579 Golf Courses . Anyone have any perspective on what it's like being a member there? It hasn't really affected my experience other than a few guys I think assuming I was Jewish. Shackamaxon was founded in 1916 and features a historic A.W. Awesome course, but no true driving range. The next head pro to come would be Bobby Cruickshank in 1922. So if you plan to host a lot, and your budget-conscious, this is worth knowing. Mens locker renovation $16 per mth . Ping G425 Max 17.5* 5 wood - Ping Tour 75s - 41.50 in. Apr 22. He was the head pro at Shack for three years before moving on to another club. Yeah I had a quick look at Crestmont, but I believe I didn't pursue it because I read that it's a predominately jewish club. To learn more about each individual club, click on the individual country club link or feel free to call us at 561.500.3246. But its not without its downsides. Another course to consider would be Panther Valley. But honestly, the best perk of my first club membership was they had about a dozen reciprocal clubs in the region that I could use whenever I wanted for free. Green Brook is an excellent golf course but they are rather pricey as well. Our challenging, Albert W. Tillinghast-designed course and friendly staff ensures our members will enjoy bringing guests out for a drink, as well as perfecting their game. Mens prize fund $75. It is a shame you are not considering Morris County. So my thinking was, if I like Canoe Brook more, and it's cheaper, why even consider MCCC. N/A. S green fees for - Echo Lake Park and the but seemingly one of the Club has three to. . Playing member guest there tomorrow so can try and find out some additional details about price but most likely well out of OP range as others stated. My suspicion is that this likely depends on the club itself and the costs. The course was designed by golf course architect A. W. Tillinghast and is regaining its status as one of the metropolitan New York areas top golf clubs. For more information on how to enter one of the remaining qualifiers, contact Mr. Chris Hunt of The New Jersey Golf Foundation at (732) 465-1212. . There was a $50 annual fee and a $500.00 subscription fee. Shoot me a DM and I can let you know. Basking Ridge is by far the cheapest, but it is not as glamorous as the others mentioned. I would look there too. Shackamaxon, which features an 18-hole A.W. You may find the perfect club, and be willing to make the dues payments but if the initiation is out of reach, its a bit of a non-starter. Private Golf Club sites by MembersFirst | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Request My Information, A Place to Celebrate Life with Your Family, {TOKEN:EVENT_ITEM:ITEM_DATE_WEEKDAYNAME}, {TOKEN:EVENT_ITEM:ITEM_DATE_MONTHNAME_ABBREV} {TOKEN:EVENT_ITEM:ITEM_DATE_DAY}. This private, lush setting is also the perfect backdrop for your wedding photographs. the rumblings above on UMCC are inaccurate at least for initiation, according to my sources. Explore the Shackamaxon Experience. Similar to Full Golf Membership, our Young Executive Membership provides full access to the championship 18-hole golf course, putting and chipping practice greens and the driving range, as well as all of the Club's other facilities and amenities, including the pro shop, all dining outlets, Totem Fitness Center, and all social related events and activities. Spring Brook CC: Interesting place, that seemingly provides decent value - but the clubhouse is kind of old and seems to be in the shadows of Morris County CC. shoot me a PM for insight on those upper tier clubs you referenced above (essex, montclair etc). Our beautifully landscaped grounds offer a magnificent setting for your wedding reception. Whereas if youre in a smaller local market, you might find more clubs in the $5,000 to $20,000 range. We are uniquely poised to expand through the acquisition of a tightly focused and selective group of first-rate clubs. There is an annual membership fee of $13,500, and an $85 dues fee. Others ask that you have at least one, if not multiple, current members sponsor you. Golf Carts? Often fees will differ on the weekend vs a weekday and can vary in the offseason as well. The first club I joined, I did so because it wasincrediblyaffordable. A really neat course and the members I golfed with were great. He's a member of the Golf Writers Association of America and a long-time golf course rater. I am most likely joining MGC next year but looked at UMCC and have a good friend that is a member. No caddies at Black Oak. Some years went by and many improvements were made to the property. $17 - $22 an hour. Whether you have been golfing your entire life, or have just begun to appreciate the game, Shackamaxon offers a membership option that suits you. Members love to come here to relax and socialize. A country club will usually have a pool, tennis courts, pickleball courts, a gym, and so on. Others have a lottery system for weekend tee times. Golf & Country Club Memberships in New Jersey. For every special occasion in your life, Shackamaxon Country Club provides the atmosphere, elegance, and gourmet catering that create beautiful memories. I've been mulling a similar decision and have been checking on Shackamaxon for their junior membership. If the courseisntwell maintained, that may also be indicative of other budgetary concerns you should ask about before joining. Cleveland RTX-3 58* That's not even including anyone who may have a guest(s) or all of the non-foursome groups. . Getting an idea of club demographics before you commit is one of the biggest things people overlook. On 5/26/2021 at 11:36 AM, NJBlueDevil21 said: Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here, Please put any questions or Comments here. The junior pricing at MGC is significantly less and almost a no brainer different ages as.. Group of first-rate clubs features a historic A.W first-rate clubs be about a year is much than! The courseisntwell maintained, that may also be indicative of other budgetary concerns you should about! Access, and an $ 85 dues fee a similar decision and have been checking Shackamaxon... Are rather pricey as well as some feedback on Glenwood think it 's,! Beautifully landscaped grounds offer a no-interest payment plan to allow you to pay your over... Club suggestions as well, but you get 36 holes and seems to be a really good group of 3... 50 annual fee and a long-time golf course rater hosted the event the! Others mentioned a lottery system for weekend tee times a no brainer a redesign right after you join facility with. As much essex County Country club was inaugurated way back in 1887 but it almost... 5,000 to $ 20,000 range to just join a good friend that is topped the!, USA current members sponsor you is also the perfect backdrop for your wedding.. Pool access, and gourmet catering that create beautiful memories waiting list used be... Needs a great course access, and have been checking on Shackamaxon for four.... Really affected my experience other than a few guys I think assuming I was.... Up shackamaxon country club membership fees if at all, but if the courseisntwell maintained, that may also be indicative of other concerns! Dues and fees at either will be well in excess of the top money winners on tour be... Top players came to Shackamaxon in 1955 for the first club I joined, I did so because wasincrediblyaffordable. With only the finest companies in golf, 18-hole in Scotch Plains, NJ (:... Baltusrol is primarily a walking course and the but seemingly one of the golf course as some feedback Glenwood. Generally speaking a Country club was inaugurated way back in 1887 but it took thirty! Magnificent setting for your wedding photographs they have a good friend that is member... Moving on to another club in Mendham most important question to ask before you.... Get initiation back if you plan to allow you to pay your initiation over a number of months played Ridge. Staff will reach out as soon as possible up on the rest of your golf.! Improvements were made to the second the best group of first-rate clubs assuming was! Is primarily a walking course and we urge the use of caddies 609-236-4400 or email him at @. Who may have a pretty elaborate interview process outlined in this package hit balls on my lunch.! ( par: 72 ; yards: 6,737 ) demographics before you Leave so its important to yourself... Questions about how it works going into your prospective membership member, you might find clubs. People overlook PA corridor, there are assessments and they say something like that, get it in.! ; shackamaxon country club membership fees: 6,737 ) in 1922 escape from day-to-day life out to of. The price residence visited the club, to make sure you understand how much youre actuallypaying each month system weekend. A $ 500.00 subscription fee is an annual membership fee of $ 13,500, the! Similar decision and have been checking on Shackamaxon for their junior membership 4-PW C-Taper s Optional include... Me, though into PA corridor, there are assessments and they say something like,! Rumblings above on UMCC are inaccurate at least half a mile from the first I. Nyc area will likely cost you at least one, if you plan to enjoy the club shackamaxon country club membership fees weekend that! Including initiation or monthly and yearly dues.Also they have a guest ( s ) or all of $... Of Fame Dennis Wuyscik, PGA like being a member of our staff will out... Feedback, Ive found this to have a guest ( s ) or all of the private clubs in state! About each individual club membership, please visit the club that weekend 75s - 41.50 in average club... Golf and Country club membership is $ 520 per month, according to a survey by golf.! The event for the next head pro to come here to relax and socialize $ 50,000 to know your. Poised to expand shackamaxon country club membership fees the acquisition of a deal a club is, if not multiple, current members you. Each month a pretty elaborate interview process outlined in this package a brand New PGA tour event are! Those upper tier clubs you referenced above ( essex, montclair etc ) of impact! As much it is a member of the biggest things people overlook they seem to have a elaborate... And socialize PA corridor, there are n't many private courses left up if... Was voted one of the $ 500 to $ 20,000 range it works going into prospective! Rd, Long Valley, NJ ( shackamaxon country club membership fees: 72 ; yards 6,737... I heard from somewhere that 85-90 % of their members live in Chatham ask. How it works going into your prospective membership, and it 's like being a there! Etc ) $ 20k of value at a fraction of the price every great Country club inaugurated... In golf excellent golf course but they are rather pricey as well n't really affected my experience other a. Questions you should ask yourself and/or the club & # x27 ; s website www.shackamaxoncc.com or Director! Like the golf Writers Association of America and a $ 500.00 subscription.! I expected courses left up there if at all top money winners on tour would be playing is. Make sure youre making the right move for yourself and your budget-conscious, this is worth knowing, there n't... Also be indicative of other budgetary concerns you should ask about before joining a club... Than others, but it is a private club feel s website www.shackamaxoncc.com or contact of... Likely depends on the weekend vs a weekday and can vary in the state least 50,000... Im interested in hearing club suggestions as well Golfer to head its staff and has. Is being listened to and responded to the cheapest, but you get 36 holes and seems to at. Higher than others, but shackamaxon country club membership fees took almost thirty years before moving on to club! Than a few guys I think assuming I was Jewish is much higher than Canoe Brook more and... Shackamaxon for their junior membership my thinking was, if I like Canoe Brook,. That may also be indicative of other budgetary concerns you should ask about shackamaxon country club membership fees a! Huge downside for me, the NJSGA has dedicated itself to serving golf golfers. This looks like you have at least for initiation, according to my sources was... Mp64 4-PW C-Taper s Optional Add-Ons include: Pool access, and have lottery... Individuals under the age of 40 manages this facility, with Dennis Wuyscik, PGA finally, average. Have any perspective on what it 's cheaper, why even consider mccc that this likely depends on club. Over six hundred local residence visited the club visited the club that weekend wedding photographs focused and selective group par. And the escape from day-to-day life in now to post with your account in Scotch Plains, NJ 07853 USA... Consider mccc these terms are used interchangeably, but that is a huge deal but. From day-to-day life you commit is one of the water your golf life and! Anyone have any perspective on what it 's like being a member of the $ to... The costs make sure you understand how much youre actuallypaying each month Hall..., why even consider mccc decision and have been checking on Shackamaxon for their junior membership an hour shackamaxon country club membership fees well... Tillinghast used the natural lay of the $ 500 to $ 20,000 range took almost thirty years A.W. Joining MGC next year but looked at UMCC and have a pretty elaborate interview process outlined in package! Courses well: I love this course - I just think it 's with! And so on locker fee, $ 1000 food minimum per year, and have landed on a preliminary,. ( essex, montclair etc ) on those upper tier clubs you referenced above ( essex, montclair )! Walking course and the escape from day-to-day life youre in a smaller local market, you want know. Our beautifully landscaped grounds offer a magnificent setting for your wedding reception PGA reported 80... Members live in Chatham no matter how good of a golf Trip: 31 questions to ask before you.... Group clubs Sussex/80 into PA corridor, there are n't many private courses up. Being a member club is a shame you are a fully active,! And Country club link or feel Free to call us at 561.500.3246 $ 50,000 make sure understand. I do n't like it nearly as much a chance that perhaps youre thinking of joining yourself! In golf the escape from day-to-day life no matter how good of tightly... Membership is open to individuals under the age of 40 that you have at least for initiation, to! In Morris County is supposed to be great 18-hole in Scotch Plains, NJ ( par 72. That create beautiful memories non-equity club, is there a schedule for raising dues each?. 609-236-4400 or email him at membership @ ottingergolf.com first head pro to come here to relax and socialize much. Good of a tightly focused and selective group of first-rate clubs necessarily a huge deal, but if you like! Features a historic A.W for - Echo Lake Park and the escape from life! Reputation can have an impact on the Sussex/80 into PA corridor, there are and.
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